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My experience as an atheist has been me holding a shield with them having a sword. I don’t really have any interest in talking about God with anyone.
Right? I’ve gotten “Aren’t you worried about going to Hell?”
Just… no.
Obviously not
As much as I’m worried about getting lost in Narnia.
My experience has been the exact opposite!
I suspect it’s a cultural thing, though. I’m British, but I know America has a very aggressive evangelical base. There are mega-churches and politicians and sports people are always talking about God and Jesus and we just don’t have that over here.
On the other hand, a few atheists I know have tried to “convert” me before.
I’m guessing it’s a certainty thing. From what I’ve seen of the American churches, some of them are absolutely borderline cults. So of course the folk are certain that they’re right.
And there’s certainly enough ammunition in religion as a whole for anyone who hates religion to think that they’re right.
Someone brought up religion, or god. Is it the athiests?
I will absolutely push back if something brings up religion.
It would be silly if a Christian tried to convert you, an already converted Christian. Maybe there’s some confirmation bias at work?
It always starts from the assumption that I’m an atheist too. They’re all friends, by the way, so don’t picture some kind of weird high-pressure pitches on the street.
Also I want to make it clear that I’m not trying to conflate being atheist and being anti-religious - my friend in this story however is in the “religion is ultimately the cause of every war in history” camp.
Anyway, very basically, I’d done something nice. Another work friend was talking about it, and my anti-religion friend responded with “see, he’s an objectively nice person, no religion needed or anything”. And it was at this point I revealed my secret identity, and the discussion began.
Just for balance, over my 44 years, I’ve also had a Scientology pitch, a Jehovah’s Witnesses pitch (old-school knocking on the door style), and an uncomfortably high-pressure pitch from what I’m sure was one of those churches set up to scam immigrants.
But outside of those, the main people who have tried to change me have been friends with strong anti-religious views.
I live in the US and in real life Ive had far more atheists be assholes about religion. That said, Christians are in power, so they likely dont feel the need to be so loud.
The Christian belief is as trivially obviously fake as Zeus and has done a lot of harm
What did the atheists try to “convert” you to?
Hmm. I’m going to go ahead and assume this is a bad-faith comment. Despite that, I’ll try to help.
I’m guessing from the phrasing that you’re not aware, but if you’re trying to change someone’s belief system, it’s called conversion.
I appreciate that you were probably trying to do the “atheism isn’t a belief, it’s a lack of a belief” thing, but unfortunately that’s how the language works in this case.
Nope. They’re right. Conversation has a destination. Pointing out the flaws in YOUR beliefs isn’t telling you where to end up, only where to leave from.
That’s just deprogramming.
I get what you’re saying, but you’re wrong. I’ve used the word correctly. Genuinely, look it up.
You did not. Notice how every example has a direction associated with it
con·ver·sion kən-ˈvər-zhən -shən Synonyms of conversion 1: the act of converting : the process of being converted
2: an experience associated with the definite and decisive adoption of a religion
3a: the operation of finding a converse in logic or mathematics
b: reduction of a mathematical expression by clearing of fractions
4: a successful attempt for a point or points especially after a touchdown or for a first down
5: something converted from one use to another
6: gene conversion
Examples of conversion in a Sentence
The company is undergoing a **conversion to ** a new computer system.
They have suggested conversion of the old school into apartments.
Conversion to gas heating will continue over the next few years.
a conversion from Catholicism to Judaism
He is thinking about conversion to Buddhism.
OK, let’s go through the motions.
“Conversion to atheism”
Ah, but atheism isn’t a belief system, it’s the absence of one.
Yes I know, I’m not asserting that atheism is a belief system or a religion or anything like that
But you used the word conversion, as if it was a religion
Yes because you’re trying to change my beliefs and win me over to your way of thinking. Conversion is the correct word.
But atheism is the default human position, so you can’t convert to it
Humans are social creatures. World views, philosophies and beliefs are cultural, not biological. Atheism is no more the default position than English is the default language. Whatever you start off with, that’s your default position.
I’m sorry for putting words in your mouth here, and I hope I haven’t put up a strawman argument, but like I said - conversion really is the correct word.
I realise I mightn’t have won you over, and that’s fine, but this is a mad thing to get hung up on.
BTW, I do appreciate you doing the legwork and actually digging out the definition.
Nice deflection, bro. But my point was exactly that. You cannot “convert” someone to atheism. That would imply atheism is a belief, rather than the lack thereof. So my question stands.
It’s obvious that they meant convince them to stop believing in any faith. You are trying to twist words when nobody is even slightly confused.
Sorry, but it’s true. I’m afraid you’re going to have to take it up with a higher authority than me (i.e. the dictionary people) if you want to change how the word is used.
It’s the word for changing someone’s belief system not, as you seem to think, giving someone a new belief system.
Sorry, but I’m correct here.
Also, here’s additional lesson for you - you started your reply admitting that the question was asked in bad faith, that I did spot what you were talking about, and that you do know that I’m talking about atheism. Then you finish with “so my question stands”.
No it doesn’t. You understood fully what I was talking about in both the post you replied to and my response. So it doesn’t stand - you already knew the answer.
Look, I don’t mind you having a crack at being Mr I’m-Very-Clever-Catch-You-Out-On-Word-Meanings, but at least do it well.
According to the first page of my search the Cambridge, Merriam Webster, Dictionary.com, Collins dictionaries all imply conversion needs also adopting a new belief/opinion/religion.
I feel it’s a commonly propagated lie within certain religions that atheism is a belief, which of course it’s not (it’s the lack of belief, like most people have about fairies, flat Earth or the Mayan end of the world). I don’t know if your mention of this statement is that you agree or not, but if you do - how do you arrive at the position that questioning is being the same as (lexical) conversion?
I get that a large part of Abrahamitic religions in particular is to obey and not question, as well as theism being necessary to be accepted in the religion (and not a heretic); is it that the questioning positions you outside of the religion and thus deconverts? Is that how you arrive at the “change”?
I apologise for the clumsy phrasing, but if we’re reading the same text and coming to different conclusions, I must assume we’re using words differently and would need to backtrack to find our last point of common understanding.
No, it’s fine.
I’ve grabbed your Collins as an example - I promise it’s not been cherry-picked, it was the first I clicked on!
“If someone converts you, they persuade you to change your religious or political beliefs. You can also say that someone converts to a different religion.”
Would it qualify as changing my religious beliefs? I think so. It’s you that’s inferring that it needs to be to another religion.
Ok, second part.
“I get that a large part of Abrahamic religions in particular is to obey and not question, as well as theism being necessary to be adopted into the religion”
No you don’t, because you’re wrong. I don’t mean that in a harsh way - it’s easy to look at listen to all of the hard-line religious folk and think that’s the norm. The truth is that they’re weirdos.
A big part of most Abrahamic religions is questioning the dogma, theology, even the scripture. It’s been this way forever too.
And yes historically, bad people have used religions (and still do) as a pretext for horrific atrocities, but unfortunately that’s a problem with any organisation that places too much power on an unhinged leader.
Look, an example might help. A little while back, the Church of England put out a statement about how they didn’t intend to change their stance on not allowing gay marriage in churches. It was, to my eyes, an utterly unnecessary statement to make, and moreover, completely at odds with the “unconditional love” message.
I asked my vicar if we could talk about it and explained that I don’t feel comfortable being associated with a religion that publicly makes statements like that.
I found out that she herself has performed several same-sex marriages, just not in a church. As have many of the other vicars around here. Some haven’t. Her mentor in the church is transexual, not secret - she’s written a book about it.
The truth is that the upper ranks of the Anglican church are trying to prevent a schism with the more hard-line Anglican churches in Africa. The statement was just one of many that have been put out, it’s just that this one got attention from the press.
The rank-and-file vicars don’t even share exactly the same theology as each other. Like I said, many officiate same-sex marriages, some will not. Some believe that when people die, their souls go straight to heaven or watch over us, some do not (why wouldn’t they? Well, it isn’t actually in the Bible).
There’s a wide, wide range of interpretations and you are encouraged to keep asking questions.
Like I said, it’s easy to look at the loud people and think they’re the norm - but it’s not the case. They’re the very, very vocal minority.
Yikes I’ve written way more than intended. I hope that helps!
“there’s certainly enough ammunition in religion as a whole for anyone who hates religion to think that they’re right.”
Is a crazy way to phrase “there is evidence that supports their views”
Not really. It’s an observation that most religions have some dogmatic and scriptural aspects that can be seen as either absurd or abhorrent.
Most large religions have been co-opted at some point in history by powerful people to do some terrible things.
If you were anti-religion, there’s a lot of things to take shots at.
Explain how what i said was wrong? I understand you disagree, but none of the rest of your comment explains why.
You asked what I meant by my sentence and I clarified it.
For example, I personally find the idea of transubstantiation weird. To my mind, that does not provide evidence that all religion is wrong, just that maybe strict Catholicism maybe isn’t for me.
I did not ask what you meant in your sentence.
A Christian girl once told me that she couldn’t date me because I was a non believer. I could tell it hurt her to say it, but it seemed like genuine conviction.
It’s a shame, because she was lovely.
Bullet dodged.
Sad when people let superstitions prevent them from living the life they want.
Dodged a bullet there
Personally, I’m an atheist (anti-theist to be more precise), but I’ll say that in my experience catholic christians tend to be less culty than protestant christians. Probably has something to do with the part that catholics believe that they actually have to be good vs protestants believing that simply believing is all you need.
Similarly, I’m an antitheist pagan. it’s fun.
Idk, Catholic services and practices are waaaay cultier than protestant ones. I mean, they all have pictures in their homes of the same white guy wearing a giant ceremonial hat and robe who lives in his own special nation. As a firm agnostic, I don’t have a horse in this race, but my experience differs greatly from yours. They’re all mild hobbyists compared to evangelicals anyway.
I had the misfortune of needing to attend a “Christian” university for a short while due to visa reasons in the US, the vomit inducing cult speak they do at every opprtunity at a institute that’s about education and science was appalling, imagine the kids who have to grow up in such an environment, no wonder the country is so fucked up right now
I once had a study partner who was raised like that. We were scheduling our first after school study session and trying to figure out time. I shoot out sunday and he goes “nah I have church, wait don’t you have church?” “nah, I’m an atheist”
dude vanished. Three days later I notice him trying to like… hide in a hoodie towards the opposite side of the class. I walk over, worried I offended him or something. He basically tells me that he can’t interact with satanists and I just go “look, if you don’t wanna interact with me, don’t. You don’t have to hide in a corner or try to avoid me. If you wanna draw the line at just existing in the same room, ok then.”
To his credit, he did try to have a study session with me after that, but I had to end it early. The dude was so on edge, it was like he was convinced I was gonna stab him at any moment.
Years later he contacted me to apologize out of the blue on facebook. Went completely off grid traveling the world. My guess trying to compensate for just how little he knew of it.
Religious leaders there openly brag about having gold shoes and private jets…
Just venting…
Last year my partners mother stayed at our house for a long time (months). I felt constantly judged when I was around her, so I started to become reclusive. She started judging that too. I ended up falling into depression because I felt trapped in my own home.
The day before she left, she told me she hopes I find Jesus.
It took all my willpower not to snap.
“What do you mean? He watches me from the corner every time I’m masturbating.”
Maintain eye contact and reply “Same to you.”
Christians are indoctrinated from childhood to obey any authority that speaks the way their pastor does, and to ignore the evidence of their eyes and ears to believe what they are told.
So it’s always awkward interacting with Christians, i can correct some of their shitty behavior by explaining how it would hurt them, but the conversation that their core beleifs are a control mechanism abused by conmen is impossible to broach.
It makes me sad because religion is so important to so many people, but it wouldn’t be if they weren’t indoctrinated against their will as children.
That’s false, the creator of this comic is just trying to spread hate
I’m as atheist as they come (I’m actually anti-theist in a lot of ways but I’m not militant about it) and I live in a very Red, very “Christian” area of the country, but with a couple of exceptions I haven’t had too many problems with “Christians” in face to face encounters, though they are often very judgemental people and I don’t particularly like associating with them. Still I haven’t had to pull out my Halberd once.
The only real way “Christians” negatively impact my life is when they vote in laws that requires non-“Christians” to follow their interpretation of their religion and/or try to impose their religious views on me such as making the display of “The Ten Commandments” (one of them anyway) a requirement in our public schools, which they do in my state with frequency.
Actual Christians are much more rare and I get along with them a lot better. These people actually follow with Jesus teachings (within reason) and don’t try to force their beliefs onto others. My mom was one such person in her later years and she was the best person I ever met in my life (before and after being more religious).
It takes all kinds. What’s much more important to me than what you believe is how you behave.
I absolutely don’t go asking around if you believe. And i can’t legally carry swords. Or battle axes. Or even knives in general.
It’s funny being a socialist who doesn’t believe in god. I actually support the things Jesus taught becoming law, and Christians argue the most against it.
That’s because Jesus’s teachings are tenets of common decency.
I have no experience with real-life atheists, but internet atheists do be like that.
_hyah_🤺
As an internet and real-life atheist …yeah. Most atheists just don’t talk much about their non-belief, because there isn’t much to talk about, so in dedicated atheism communities, you mostly see those that are almost anti-theist…
Most people are probably agnostic anyway
The distinction is just semantics in my mind, too, yeah. I hold the same position as agnostics, in that I do not believe this whole god concept can be disproven, because it is not rigorously formulated like a scientific thesis.
But I put that as “I do not believe that there is a god” and respectively I call myself an atheist, because well, there’s many other things which cannot be disproven, like for example Big Foot.
And if a kid were to ask me, whether Big Foot exists, I’m not going to lead with “we really can’t know”. That’s just misleading.
I guess, agnostics differentiate between gods and Big Foot, because there’s so many more people who are convinced of these gods’ existence. But yeah, I don’t do that either, because I’ve seen how many people are willing to believe climate change isn’t real. Lots of people believing something is just not an argument to me anymore.Well yeah, most theists and atheists are agnostic.
Which makes it a rather pointless label.
Yes, you do, they just don’t tell you because why would they talk about something they either have zero interest it, or a past where they believed but then figured out it wasn’t believable anymore for them?
I grew up Christian in a place where most people were atheist, went to a Christian school, where about half the students were Christian and the other was atheist, then moved to different places all over. My experience through all of that was always: Regular people in either group mostly don’t give a shit and just want to live their own lives. The “Christians” you see on TV are not normal people.
I grew up agnostic/atheist in the Bible Belt. There was a lot of casual discrimination, ostracism, and judgement if you weren’t Christian. Even among different churches. I’d have loved for there have been more Christians like you, but unfortunately the TV/Fox News Christians are all over the place down there.
Yea. Those types don’t just exist on TV, they are everyday people in our communities for some of us. To just say they aren’t “normal” erases the lived experiences of those who live where these mentalities are still very much the norm for that locality.
How does saying that such hostile treatment is abnormal “erase” anyone’s lived experiences?
If you tell someone who lived only eating one meal a day during elementary school that they did not have a normal childhood, you are directly commenting ON their “lived experience”, not erasing it.
You seem to be conflating “that’s not normal” with “that never happens”, which is not reasonable.
The weird shit on tv is incredibly common in the south
Like 40% of the US are. It may not be their primary focus or how they actually live their lives but their views align and they will absolutely sell your children out to the Nazis or see you murdered if it aligns with what tv tells them.
Why do you care if they are the kind of folks who would start the lynching if they are the folks who would hang out and drink lemonade while you choke your life away?
When I was on dating apps, I specifically filtered out anyone with religious beliefs (other than Buddhists, because they seemed inoffensive to me).
Got a selfie with a cross on your necklace? Nope. Same for women with photos with guns, anyone with an American flag, and any woman posing leaning against the hood of a sports car. There are telltale signs that we have different values. Honestly, I appreciate your advertising that we aren’t compatible and saving me the effort finding out on my own.
women with photos with guns
any woman posing leaning against the hood of a sports car
We sure have different values
To be fair, I would too with the first. But I’m European so that as a profile/dating app pic sounds insane.
Technically the second too, not because it’s a red flag for me, but just because I don’t particularly care and have better odds elsewhere if that’s half their personality.
Perhaps. I think guns are something to be handled with care, not something to enjoy as a hobby. I think sports cars are a waste of money because, realistically, you’ll be driving on city streets with speed limits in most cases.
I have a comfortable sedan because the pan taught me that I can’t rely on ride-shares and mass transit in a once-in-a-lifetime (we hope) emergency. I barely drive it. It’s a tool. And I don’t own guns because I think they’re dangerous and I’m prone to bouts of depression (I’m bi-polar). Anyone who thinks these are cool or part of their identity is not someone I want as a life partner. Even without being judgmental about these things, they signal different priorities from my own.
Now a someone with a full bookshelf in the background is another thing entirely. Or playing musical instruments. Or out in nature. These are things I value.
You know, as reasonable as it is, the last paragraph does sound totally corny. I’d be fine dating someone who’s not as much of a nerd as me, or is a nerd in a different way like movies.
Especially the bookshelf part, since in my experience, a lot of people with piles of books don’t read them (I gave the worse ones away), and making a dating app pic in a library isn’t the first thing that comes to mind.
I’m a Christian pastor happily married to an atheist, AMA.
Do you believe your wife will go to hell?
Is she agnostic or does she believe there is no god?
Catholics, christians, atheism, veganism.
It’s all the same to me. If they don’t leave any room to speculate, learn, and grow beyond existing beliefs what’s the point of living. 🤔
You understand christian and catholic is also the same right?
They are not
Educated yourself
lol k
Christians worship Christ, while Catholics worship … er … Cath
eDuCaTe YoUrSelF lol
What’s the point of living if you can’t find purpose and there’s no real truth
I guess there isn’t a point given to you by someone/something else, but you’re free to pick one of your own if you want. Or not. Ultimately we just have our evolved desire to survive and see our loved ones do well.
I’d rather pick what is actually true
What’s that?
That there’s no objective purpose to life doesn’t mean you can’t find your own. Personally, I find purpose in enjoying my life and improving the lives of others. Doesn’t matter that there isn’t some grand design, I like what I’m doing.
But that might not matter in the end
It matters to me
